I GUESS THIS is another freedom of speech issue. But really, I'm speechless.Dawn Herb, mother of four, was cited and fined by police for cursing at her toilet.
Here is the story from today's Times-Tribune in Scranton, PA:
A mother of four, she was cited for disorderly conduct after a neighbor, who is a Scranton police officer, overheard her swearing at her backed-up toilet near the open window.
Scranton Patrolman Patrick Gilman, who was off-duty at the time, asked her to stop using profanity, setting off a brief verbal altercation between the neighbors, police said.
“He cursed at me and I cursed back at him. I didn’t know he was a police officer,” she said.
Shortly thereafter, Patrolman Gilman called police headquarters to file a complaint.
Patrolman Gerald Tallo cited Ms. Herb for disorderly conduct, a summary offense.
Any thoughts?
18 comments:
she can have my freedom of speech because i'm speechless as well.
Can they really do that? Even though the window was open, the woman was behind closed doors in the privacy of her own home. Her cursing was not directed at anyone or anything outside of her home; She was not trying to start any fights, nor was she being verbally or physically abusive to anyone. Profanity may not be classy, but last I checked it's not a crime to drop a few curse words--particularly in privacy (or in this case when you think you're in private). Unless the woman said or did something extremely inappropriate when she was confronted by neighbors, which it sounds as though they cursed at her as well, I think it is ridiculous that she could be(and was) cited for this issue. I think the police department should also be embarrased that they allowed themselves to be potentially distracted from other more pressing and serious issues regarding public safety over something as childish and picayune as this.
That must have been one bored police officer...
That is one crazy thing to be cited for...she was in the privacy of her own home! It's ridiculous, there really must be NOTHING happening in Scranton.
Have you ever been arrested or even had a one on one experience with a cop (besides being issued a ticket while driving)? They are not pleasent individuals when called out to a scene or are challenged by someone that they are attempting to straighten out. Receiving a summons for 'disordely conduct' concidering the situation can only mean one thing, Patrolman Gilman needed to meet his quota for the end of the month.
greg a
morgan.. I'm from the area, and I assure you, there really isn't anything going on in Scranton or the entire surrounding county for that matter.
...but I think the issue is bigger than a disgruntled police officer. I believe people need to re-examine words..which are really inert symbols and mean nothing except for what we socially ascribe to them. profane.. really just means outside the church: secular. I think we already talked about in class that obscene has nothing to do with 'bad words' but with sexual lewdness. To curse means to put a hex on someone. I could go on with the misleading euphemisms.
Personally, I like using 'bad words.' When NWA said fuck the police..There were some very tragic circumstances surrounding their angst at the time and I just don't think 'damn the police' would have translated their perspective as accurately. I think the only times 'bad words' are ever bad is when they are used as linguistic crutches. In which case the perpetrator needs a thesaurus not a citation.
In essence, I'm asking what's really bad about these words in the first place. Everything has it's place and I wouldn't say 'fuck you' to a 2 year old. Similarly, I would not serve a 2 year old a t-bone steak. That doesn't make t-bone steak inherently bad (except to overzealous vegans and their ilk).
With the state of things, I'd imagine people would spend their time more constructively, especially those who have taken oaths to protect and to serve, but instead, are repeatedly observed terrorizing and bullshitting.
i'm glad he's not my neighbor because he sounds like an asshole.
She was in her own Home, and I don't see what was wrong with what she did in the first place. Since when did cursing become against the law? I wonder if it has to do with any conservative values her police officer neighbor may be Rudely imposing on her... possibly having to do with her being a mother of four? Whatever his reasons, their poorly supported, and I think he's abusing his power as an officer to fulfill his expectations for what he deems as "moral".
he doesn't like cursing.. well, F*ck the police.
Its pretty obvious why he was getting upset by the profanity, she was yelling it near an open window. In most municipalities there are laws against "disturbing the peace". Regardless as to whether or not he was a cop, if I was him I wouldn't want to be forced to hear those things when I'm in my backyard.Some of these posts are ignorant and instead of having a "f*ck the police bias" look at it from the next door neighbor's point of view.
This is what's wrong with our police force these days. First off, the cop was off duty. Take a freaking break! Secnd, it was the cops fault the ladt started cursing at him in the first place it sounds like. God let a lady yell at her toilet if she pleases haha Third, the cops that were on duty should be solving more important problems.
Ashley Huber
to kevin m.. It's not at all 'obvious' to me why someone would get upset by 'profanity.' Please do enlighten those of us who are less aware.
Also, 'fuck the police' is a title of a song, not a bias. Members of a hip hop group, NWA, were driving around shooting paint guns at people when moments later they found themselves face down on the pavement with real guns directed at their heads. This thing called excessive force comes to mind. Such is the reality of certain demographics in this country, but that's not the point. My point was that they were angry, embarrassed, and inspired. They wrote a number one single entitled 'fuck the police.' Again, 'to hell with the police' just wouldn't have captured the sentiment. Isn't that what words do? Convey thoughts and emotions?
That woman was pissed off about her toilet. Out of the huge array of words in the American vernacular, she chose fuck. How does this concern the police department? There are less abstract things in life by which to be offended. Choose one.
Forget the police for now. Forget the profanity.
Who's rights trump in this situation: the woman's right to scream at her toilet, or the neighbor's right not to have to hear her yelling?
- George (the infinetly rational teacher)
I think that this police officer is abusing his power. This woman has the right to be frustrated at "her toilet", This man does not have to pry into her business and then take it to the level of getting the police headquarters involved. This story is a waste of time and honestly the police should be worried about more serious things to do with their time,
-chelsea coia
to trudy..
I answered the question that you asked and that professor miller posed in my first post. If I was sitting in my back yard, why should I have to here some inconsiderate woman scream 'curse' words at her toilet. I understand the other point of view,she has every right to 'curse' at her toilet in her own home, but when I can here her on my property its no longer a private property issue.
Regardless whether or not F*ck the Police is a pop culture reference (which I was aware and didn't need your verbose explanation)it is a sentiment, a sentiment that maybe not you in particular but a lot of people have, people who will end up being the first to call them when they have a problem.
Long story short. Yell at your toilet quieter or close the window and it doesn't bother me.
I think she has a right to swear at her toilet. He doesn't have to hear her swearing at her toilet. He could've not been so close to her window.
If I got cited for everytime I swore at a household object, I probably would not be attending a university. I woul dbe a 6 count felon. I curse like a sailor in my own time and I think I have a right to curse when I'm not around anyone that it will offend. I rarely curse in public. But that's not because it's the law not to (for the most part).
I don't think she was in plain site or anything either. This is a blatant overstepping of power. This police officer was off-cuty and thus should have handled the situation like a civillian with nerighbors would. It is certainly his right to file a noise complaint, but a disorderly?
I was under the impression that disorderlies were public things, not toilets. But really, he couldn't just knock on her door and ask her to maybe consider her surrondings.
This is just ridiculous. This guy obviously just gets off on power trips. Had he been accompnied by children or real estate managers...or anyone else of the public maybe I would consider otherwise. It just sounds like there is more to the story. A neighborly rivalry or something.
My dogs' better than your dog.
Verbose? I believe I was rather concise with my summary of the NWA incident actually, but thank you for your riveting commentary all the same. I was attempting to illustrate that you created your own context, and I was not mindlessly regurgitating some anti-establishment lingo.
Reports say the cop initially confronted the woman by yelling a few choice words of his own. Could there be a counterclaim?
$300 fine and 90 days in jail is excessive for this 'crime,' I believe.
"Rationally," she wasn't violating any of the reasons for which we claim we limit speech. Although I support Kevin's right to dislike her speech, I just can't reconcile her pending punishment. That's not justice. It's bordering on harassment.
Something like this would only happen in my hometown. I don't know why people get such a bug up their ass over a few "dirty words". If i am in the privacy of my own home and decide to curse that is my purogative. i am an adult and have the freedom to say what I want, in my own home if no where else. If my neighbors are going to say something to me about in a calm manner, then I will respond in kind. Conversely, if my neighbor is going to be rude or argumentative then again I will respond in kind. As far as i can tell, the police officer abused his authority. He acted very childish and I'm sure if the woman fought the citation she'd win. Scranton is a third class city but if you ever lived there you would know that the people have a very small minded, rural mentality. Something like this would never happen in a big city.
Yea. This is pretty stupid. You're going to hear cursing all of your life no matter what unless you live in a convent or something. Police officer or not, I don't think he should have went as far as calling the police for a few bad words. C'mon grow up.
~Lana Adams~
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